Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. This 'pagan continuity hypothesis' with a psychedelic twist is now backed up by biochemistry and agrochemistry and tons of historical research, exposing our forgotten history. But it's not an ingested psychedelic. To become truly immortal, Campbell talks about entering into a sense of eternity, which is the infinite present here and now. I fully expect we will find it. Here's your Western Eleusis. 18.3C: Continuity Theory. I'm going to come back to that idea of proof of concept. And so I do see an avenue, like I kind of obliquely mentioned, but I do think there's an avenue within organized religion and for people who dedicate their lives as religious professionals to ministry to perhaps take a look at this in places where it might work. But you go further still, suggesting that Jesus himself at the Last Supper might have administered psychedelic sacrament, that the original Eucharist was psychedelic. So when Hippolytus is calling out the Marcosians, and specifically women, consecrating this alternative Eucharist in their alternative proto-mass, he uses the Greek word-- and we've talked about this before-- but he uses the Greek word [SPEAKING GREEK] seven times in a row, by the way, without specifying which drugs he's referring to. Now, it doesn't have to be the Holy Grail that was there at the Last Supper, but when you think about the sacrament of wine that is at the center of the world's biggest religion of 2.5 billion people, the thing that Pope Francis says is essential for salvation, I mean, how can we orient our lives around something for which there is little to no physical data? I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? And shouldn't we all be asking that question? I'm sure he knows this well, by this point. So if you were a mystic and you were into Demeter and Persephone and Dionysus and you were into these strange Greek mystery cults, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better place to spend your time than [SPEAKING GREEK], southern Italy, which in some cases was more Greek than Greek. And the big question is, what is this thing doing there in the middle of nowhere? The book proposes a history of religious ritualistic psychedelic use at least as old as the ancient Greek mystery religions, especially those starting in Eleusis and dating to roughly 2,000 BC. Maybe there's a spark of the divine within. I'm not sure where it falls. And how do we-- when the pharmaceutical industry and when these retreat centers begin to open and begin to proliferate, how do we make this sacred? If you are drawn to psychedelics, in my mind, it means you're probably drawn to contemplative mysticism. Are they rolling their eyes, or are you getting sort of secretive knowing nods of agreement? But I do want to push back a little bit on the elevation of this particular real estate in southern Italy. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. Because at my heart, I still consider myself a good Catholic boy. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. So there's a house preserved outside of Pompeii, preserved, like so much else, under the ash of Mount Vesuvius's eruption in the year 79 of the Common Era. So what do we know about those rituals? That's the promise in John's gospel, in John 6:54-55, that I quote in the book. I did go straight to [INAUDIBLE] Papangelli in Eleusis, and I went to the museum. 1,672. Let me start with the view-- the version of it that I think is less persuasive. There were formula. And I'm trying to reconcile that. So Gobekli Tepe, for those who don't know, is this site in southern Turkey on the border with Syria. The most colorful theory of psychedelics in religion portrays the original Santa Claus as a shaman. And the reason I find that a worthy avenue of pursuit is because when you take a step back and look at the Greek of the Gospels, especially the Greek of John, which is super weird, what I see based on Dennis MacDonald's scholarship that you mentioned-- and others-- when you do the exegesis of John's gospel, there's just lots of vocabulary and lots of imagery that doesn't appear elsewhere. So here's a question for you. And so in the epilogue, I say we simply do not know the relationship between this site in Spain and Eleusis, nor do we know what was happening at-- it doesn't automatically mean that Eleusis was a psychedelic rite. But I think there's a decent scientific foothold to begin that work. This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. But what I see are potential and possibilities and things worthy of discussions like this. The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. That's only after Constantine. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. would certainly appreciate. . What Brian labels the religion with no name. Now that doesn't mean, as Brian was saying, that then suggests that that's the norm Eucharist. Do you think that by calling the Eucharist a placebo that you're likely to persuade them? So you lean on the good work of Harvard's own Arthur Darby Nock, and more recently, the work of Dennis McDonald at Claremont School of Theology, to suggest that the author of the Gospel of John deliberately paints Jesus and his Eucharist in the colors of Dionysus. Just imagine, I have to live with me. This time around, we have a very special edition featuring Dr. Mark Plotkin and Brian C . BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. Not because it was brand new data. And she talks about the visions that transformed the way she thinks about herself. Let's move to early Christian. And I don't know if it's a genuine mystical experience or mystical mimetic or some kind of psychological breakthrough. 8 "The winds, the sea . And I don't know if there's other examples of such things. So psychedelics or not, I think it's the cultivation of that experience, which is the actual key. It's interesting that Saint Ignatius of Antioch, in the beginning of the second century AD, refers to the wine of the Eucharist as the [SPEAKING GREEK], the drug of immortality. So my biggest question is, what kind of wine was it? We look forward to hosting Chacruna's founder and executive director, Bia Labate, for a lecture on Monday, March 8. The continuity theory proposes that older adults maintain the same activities, behaviors, personalities, and relationships of the past. BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. It is my great pleasure to welcome Brian Muraresku to the Center. And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. This is all secret. To some degree, I think you're looking back to southern Italy from the perspective of the supremacy of Rome, which is not the case in the first century. McGovern also finds wine from Egypt, for example, in 3150 BC, wine that is mixed with a number of interesting ingredients. The continuity theory of normal aging states that older adults will usually maintain the same activities, behaviors, relationships as they did in their earlier years of life. What is its connection to Eleusis? So I was obsessed with this stuff from the moment I picked up an article in The Economist called the God Pill back in 2007. I don't think we have found it. What was being thrown into it? And I-- in my profession, we call this circumstantial, and I get it. And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. The altar had been sitting in a museum in Israel since the 1960s and just hadn't been tested. Things like fasting and sleep deprivation and tattooing and scarification and, et cetera, et cetera. He comes to this research with a full suite of scholarly skills, including a deep knowledge of Greek and Latin as well as facility in a number of European languages, which became crucial for uncovering some rather obscure research in Catalan, and also for sweet-talking the gatekeepers of archives and archaeological sites. So we move now into ancient history, but solidly into the historical record, however uneven that historical record is. That is, by giving, by even floating the possibility of this kind of-- at times, what seems like a Dan Brown sort of story, like, oh my god, there's a whole history of Christianity that's been suppressed-- draws attention, but the real point is actually that you're not really certain about the story, but you're certain is that we need to be more attentive to this evidence and to assess it soberly. And I don't know what that looks like. I think the only big question is what the exact relationship was from a place like that over to Eleusis. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. And so that's what motivated my search here. Rather, Christian beliefs were gradually incorporated into the pagan customs that already existed there. [texts-excerpt] penalty for cutting mangroves in floridaFREE EstimateFREE Estimate Throughout his five books he talks about wine being mixed with all kinds of stuff, like frankincense and myrrh, relatively innocuous stuff, but also less innocuous things like henbane and mandrake, these solanaceous plants which he specifically says is fatal. I expect we will find it. Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . That is my dog Xena. And so in my afterword, I present this as a blip on the archaeochemical radar. But even if they're telling the truth about this, even if it is accurate about Marcus that he used a love potion, a love potion isn't a Eucharist. And so I don't think that psychedelics are coming to replace the Sunday Eucharist. That's how we get to Catalonia. When Irenaeus is talking about [SPEAKING GREEK], love potions, again, we have no idea what the hell he's talking about. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. I'm paraphrasing this one. CHARLES STANG: So that actually helps answer a question that's in the Q&A that was posed to me, which is why did I say I fully expect that we will find evidence for this? Now, here's-- let's tack away from hard, scientific, archaeobotanical evidence for a moment. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. Here's the proof of concept. For me, that's a question, and it will yield more questions. I took this to Greg [? I want to thank you for your candor. Listen to #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More, an episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, easily on Podbay - the best podcast player on the web. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. 13,000 years old. Then what was the Gospel of John, how did it interpret the Eucharist and market it, and so on. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. In fact, he found beer, wine, and mead all mixed together in a couple of different places. 283. It's this 22-acre site of free-standing limestone, some rising 20 feet in the air, some weighing 50 tons. Administration and supervision endeavors and with strong knowledge in: Online teaching and learning methods, Methods for Teaching Mathematics and Technology Integration for K-12 and College . It was the Jesuits who taught me Latin and Greek. Hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data, I haven't seen it. I'm happy to argue about that. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. But we do know that something was happening. A combination of psychoactive plants, including opium, cannabis, and nightshade, along with the remains of reptiles and amphibians all steeped in wine, like a real witch's brew, uncovered in this house outside of Pompeii. The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". These-- that-- Christians are spread out throughout the eastern Mediterranean, and there are many, many pockets of people practicing what we might call, let's just call it Christian mysticism of some kind. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . Where does Western civilization come from? Again, how did Christianity take hold in a world with such a rich mystical tradition? We see lots of descriptions of this in the mystical literature with which you're very familiar. CHARLES STANG: Wonderful. But I realized that in 1977, when he wrote that in German, this was the height of scholarship, at least going out on a limb to speculate about the prospect of psychedelics at the very heart of the Greek mysteries, which I refer to as something like the real religion of the ancient Greeks, by the way, in speaking about the Eleusinian mysteries. And I did not dare. Wonderful, well, thank you. And Ruck, and you following Ruck, make much of this, suggesting maybe the Gnostics are pharmacologists of some kind. You see an altar of Pentelic marble that could only have come from the Mount Pentelicus quarry in mainland Greece. Brendon Benz presents an alternative hypothesis to recent scholarship which has hypothesized that Israel consisted of geographical, economic . This notion in John 15:1, the notion of the true vine, for example, only occurs in John. There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . So I went fully down the rabbit hole. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. It still leaves an even bigger if, Dr. Stang, is which one is psychedelic? Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? He's the god of wine. The divine personage in whom this cult centered was the Magna Mater Deum who was conceived as the source of all life as well as the personification of all the powers of nature.\[Footnote:] Willoughby, Pagan Regeneration, p. 114.\ 7 She was the "Great Mother" not only "of all the gods," but of all men" as well. Maybe I have that wrong. Which turns out, it may be they were. I go out of my way, in both parts of the book, which, it's divided into the history of beer and the history of wine, essentially. And if there's historical precedent for it, all the more so. Including, all the way back to Gobekli Tepe, which is why I mentioned that when we first started chatting. And I want to-- just like you have this hard evidence from Catalonia, then the question is how to interpret it. CHARLES STANG: OK, that is the big question. And so part of what it means to be a priest or a minister or a rabbi is to sit with the dying and the dead. And when we know so much about ancient wine and how very different it was from the wine of today, I mean, what can we say about the Eucharist if we're only looking at the texts? OK-- maybe one of those ancient beers. So what I think we have here in this ergtotized beer drink from Catalonia, Spain, and in this weird witch's brew from 79 AD in Pompeii, I describe it, until I see evidence otherwise, as some of the very first heart scientific data for the actual existence of actual spiked wine in classical antiquity, which I think is a really big point. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact Psychedelics Today: Mark Plotkin - Bio-Cultural Conservation of the Amazon. If you look at Dioscorides, for example, his Materia Medica, that's written in the first century AD around the same time that the Gospels themselves are being written. And they found this site, along with others around the Mediterranean. But when it comes to that Sunday ritual, it just, whatever is happening today, it seems different from what may have motivated the earliest Christians, which leads me to very big questions. So the event happens, when all the wines run out, here comes Jesus, who's referred to in the Gospels as an [SPEAKING GREEK] in Greek, a drunkard. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. So thank you, all who have hung with us. Well, let's get into it then. Is taking all these disciplines, whether it's your discipline or archaeochemistry or hard core botany, biology, even psychopharmacology, putting it all together and taking a look at this mystery, this puzzle, using the lens of psychedelics as a lens, really, to investigate not just the past but the future and the mystery of human consciousness. [2] When there's a clear tonal distinction, and an existing precedent for Christian modification to Pagan works, I don't see why you're resistant to the idea, and I'm curious . And I think what the pharmaceutical industry can do is help to distribute this medicine. CHARLES STANG: So in some sense, you're feeling almost envy for the experiences on psychedelics, which is to say you've never experienced the indwelling of Christ or the immediate knowledge of your immortality in the sacrament. So the basic point being, as far as we can tell, beer and wine are routinely mixed with things that we don't do today. They linked the idea of witches to an imagined organized sect which was a danger to the Christian commonwealth. But it was just a process of putting these pieces together that I eventually found this data from the site Mas Castellar des Pontos in Spain.